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80,000 Hours Podcast

80,000 Hours Podcast

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 The most important conversations about artificial intelligence you won’t hear anywhere else. Subscribe by searching for '80000 Hours' wherever you get podcasts. Hosted by Rob Wiblin, Luisa Rodriguez, and Zershaaneh Qureshi.All rights reserved
Episódios
  • Is there a case against Anthropic? Plus: the Meta leaks are worse than you think.

    Is there a case against Anthropic? Plus: the Meta leaks are worse than you think.
    Apr 3 2026

    When the Pentagon tried to strong-arm Anthropic into dropping its ban on AI-only kill decisions and mass domestic surveillance, the company refused. Its critics went on the attack: Anthropic and its supporters are some combination of 'hypocritical', 'naive', and 'anti-democratic'. Rob Wiblin dissects each claim finding that all three are mediocre arguments dressed up as hard truths. (Though the 'naive' one is at least interesting.)

    Plus, from 13:43: Leaked documents from Meta revealed that 10% of the company's total revenue — around $16 billion a year — came from ads for scams and goods Meta had itself banned. These likely enabled the theft of around $50 billion dollars a year from Americans alone. But when an internal anti-fraud team developed a screening method that halved the rate of scams coming from China... well, it wasn't well received.

    Chapters:

    • Introduction (00:00:00)
    • What Everyone is Missing about Anthropic vs The Pentagon (00:00:26)
    • Charge 1: Hypocrisy (00:01:21)
    • Charge 2: Naivety (00:04:55)
    • Charge 3: Undemocratic (00:09:38)
    • You don't have to debate on their terms (00:12:32)
    • The Meta Leaks Are Worse Than You Think (00:13:43)
    • Three fixes for social media's scam problem (00:16:48)
    • We should regulate AI companies as strictly as banks (00:18:46)

    Video and audio editing: Dominic Armstrong and Simon Monsour
    Transcripts and web: Elizabeth Cox and Katy Moore
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    21 minutos
  • Could a biologist armed with AI kill a billion people? | Dr Richard Moulange

    Could a biologist armed with AI kill a billion people? | Dr Richard Moulange
    Mar 31 2026
    Last September, scientists used an AI model to design genomes for entirely new bacteriophages (viruses that infect bacteria). They then built them in a lab. Many were viable. And despite being entirely novel some even outperformed existing viruses from that family.That alone is remarkable. But as today's guest — Dr Richard Moulange, one of the world's top experts on 'AI–Biosecurity' — explains, it's just one of many data points showing how AI is dissolving the barriers that have historically kept biological weapons out of reach.For years, experts have reassured us that 'tacit knowledge' — the hands-on, hard-to-Google lab skills needed to work with dangerous pathogens — would prevent bad actors from weaponising biology. So far, they've been right.But as of 2025 that reassurance is crumbling. The Virology Capabilities Test measures exactly this kind of troubleshooting expertise, and finds that modern AI models crushed top human virologists even in their self-declared area of greatest specialisation and expertise — 45% to 22%.Meanwhile, Anthropic’s research shows PhD-level biologists getting meaningfully better at weapons-relevant tasks with AI assistance — with the effect growing with each new model generation.Richard joins host Rob Wiblin to discuss all that plus:What AI biology tools already existWhy mid-tier actors (not amateurs) are the ones getting the most dangerous boostThe three main categories of defence we can pursueWhether there’s a plausible path to a world where engineered pandemics become a thing of the pastThis episode was recorded on January 16, 2026. Since recording this episode, Richard has seconded to the UK Government — please note that his views expressed here are entirely his own.Links to learn more, video, and full transcript: https://80k.info/rmAnnouncements:Our new book is available to preorder: 80,000 Hours: How to have a fulfilling career that does good is written by our cofounder Benjamin Todd. It’s a completely revised and updated edition of our existing career guide, with a big new updated section on AI — covering both the risks and the potential to steer it in a better direction, and how AI automation should affect your career planning and which skills one chooses to specialise in. Preorder now: https://geni.us/80000HoursWe're hiring contract video editors for the podcast! For more information, check out the expression of interest page on the 80,000 Hours website: https://80k.info/video-editorChapters:Cold open (00:00:00)Who's Richard Moulange? (00:00:31)AI can now design novel genomes (00:01:11)The end of the 'tacit knowledge' barrier (00:04:34)Are risks from bioterrorists overstated? (00:18:20)The 3 key disasters AI makes more likely (00:22:41)Which bad actors does AI help the most? (00:30:03)Experts are more scary than amateurs (00:41:17)Barriers to bioterrorists using AI (00:46:43)AI biorisks are sometimes dismissed (and that's a huge mistake) (00:48:54)Advanced AI biology tools we already have or will soon (01:04:10)Rob argues that the situation is hopeless (01:09:49)Intervention #1: Limit access (01:18:16)Intervention #2: Get AIs to refuse to help (01:32:58)Intervention #3: Surveillance and attribution (01:42:38)Intervention #4: Universal vaccines and antivirals (01:56:38)Intervention #5: Screen all orders for DNA (02:10:00)AI companies talk about def/acc more than they fund it (02:19:52)Can you build a profitable business solving this problem? (02:26:32)This doesn't have to interfere with useful science (much) (02:30:56)What are the best low-tech interventions? (02:33:01)Richard's top request for AI companies (02:37:59)Grok shows governments lack many legal levers (02:53:17)Best ways listeners can help fix AI-Bio (02:56:24)We might end all contagious disease in 20 years (03:03:37)Video and audio editing: Dominic Armstrong, Milo McGuire, Luke Monsour, and Simon MonsourMusic: CORBITCamera operator: Jeremy ChevillotteTranscripts and web: Elizabeth Cox and Katy Moore
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    3 horas e 8 minutos
  • #240 – Samuel Charap on how a Ukraine ceasefire could accidentally set Europe up for a bigger war

    #240 – Samuel Charap on how a Ukraine ceasefire could accidentally set Europe up for a bigger war
    Mar 24 2026

    Many people believe a ceasefire in Ukraine will leave Europe safer. But today's guest lays out how a deal could potentially generate insidious new risks — leaving us in a situation that's equally dangerous, just in different ways.

    That’s the counterintuitive argument from Samuel Charap, Distinguished Chair in Russia and Eurasia Policy at RAND. He’s not worried about a Russian blitzkrieg on Estonia. He forecasts instead a fragile peace that breaks down and drags in European neighbours; instability in Belarus prompting Russian intervention; hybrid sabotage operations that escalate through tit-for-tat responses.

    Samuel’s case isn’t that peace is bad, but that the Ukraine conflict has remilitarised Europe, made Russia more resentful, and collapsed diplomatic relations between the two. That’s a postwar environment primed for the kind of miscalculation that starts unintended wars.

    What he prescribes isn’t a full peace treaty; it’s a negotiated settlement that stops the killing and begins a longer negotiation that gives neither side exactly what it wants, but just enough to deter renewed aggression. Both sides stop dying and the flames of war fizzle — hopefully.

    None of this is clean or satisfying: Russia invaded, committed war crimes, and is being offered a path back to partial normalcy. But Samuel argues that the alternatives — indefinite war or unstructured ceasefire — are much worse for Ukraine, Europe, and global stability.


    Links to learn more, video, and full transcript: https://80k.info/sc26

    This episode was recorded on February 27, 2026.

    Chapters:

    • Cold open (00:00:00)
    • Could peace in Ukraine lead to Europe’s next war? (00:00:47)
    • Do Russia’s motives for war still matter? (00:11:41)
    • What does a good ceasefire deal look like? (00:17:38)
    • What’s still holding back a ceasefire (00:38:44)
    • Why Russia might accept Ukraine’s EU membership (00:46:00)
    • How to prevent a spiraling conflict with NATO (00:48:00)
    • What’s next for nuclear arms control (00:49:57)
    • Finland and Sweden strengthened NATO — but also raised the stakes for conflict (00:53:25)
    • Putin isn’t Hitler: How to negotiate with autocrats (00:56:35)
    • Why Russia still takes NATO seriously (01:02:01)
    • Neither side wants to fight this war again (01:10:49)

    Video and audio editing: Dominic Armstrong, Milo McGuire, Luke Monsour, and Simon Monsour
    Music: CORBIT
    Transcripts and web: Nick Stockton, Elizabeth Cox, and Katy Moore
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    1 hora e 12 minutos
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