This week Ari sits down with Marc Caruso, the CEO and co-founder of Angry Mob Music, an independent music publisher based in LA. Aside from being an advocate for independent artists in the publishing world, Marc is a composer, producer, and Emmy-nominated music editor himself. He is also the President of the LA chapter of the Association of Independent Music Publishers (AIMP), a member of the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences, a member of The Recording Academy, and a member of The Motion Picture Editors Guild.

In this episode, Marc describes the evolving landscape of music publishing, particularly in the context of our streaming economy. He breaks down essential terms, like ‘music publishing’ itself, ‘copyright’, and ‘royalties’, before diving into the deeper complexities of the publishing world. Marc is incredibly transparent about how the money gets made at his publishing company—giving detailed accounts of how much sync licenses pay these days and what royalties look like for microsyncs on platforms like YouTube and TikTok. Rounding out a more global view, Marc and Ari discuss Universal’s deal with Spotify, the MLC’s failed lawsuit against Spotify and what all this means for independent publishers and independent songwriters.

https://www.instagram.com/angrymobmusic/

Chapters

00:00 The Shift from Sales to Streaming Economy

04:07 Understanding Music Publishing

12:50 The Role of Angry Mob Music

16:55 Revenue Streams in Music Publishing

21:30 The Importance of Sync Licensing

22:00 Sync Fees and Their Variability

29:44 Sync in Film and Advertising

34:34 Micro Sync and Social Media Platforms

39:41 Navigating Music Licensing for Creators

45:24 The Complexities of Music Rights on Social Media

49:11 The Role of Music Publishers and Advocacy

57:02 Inequities in the Music Industry

01:10:30 Empowering Independent Artists and Publishers

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week Ari sits down with Liz Pelly, a prominent music journalist and author of the new book Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist. Liz’s journalism has appeared in NPR, The Guardian, and Pitchfork among other prestigious publications. Preceded by an exposé in Harper’s Magazine, Pelly’s latest work, Mood Machine, pulls back the curtain on Spotify’s exploitative practices and uncovers how those practices impact artists and listeners.

In this episode, Liz gives the low down on research she conducted for the book and explains how Spotify has unfairly conspired with major labels since its launch. As she does in Mood Machine, Liz calls out Spotify’s Perfect Fit Content (PFC) program and explains how its use of ghost artists degrades the integrity of their model for all. Ari and Liz discuss the value of music and how that can differ in the eyes of major corporations and individuals. Whether you’re an artist, label, or listener who uses Spotify, this episode will help you understand the impact Spotify’s model has on your relationship to music.

https://www.instagram.com/lizpelly

Harper’s article: https://harpers.org/archive/2025/01/the-ghosts-in-the-machine-liz-pelly-spotify-musicians/

Chapters

00:00 The Inner Workings of Spotify

12:48 Ghost Artists and the PFC Program

37:50 Spotify's Launch and Major Label Relationships

41:26 The Evolution of Streaming Contracts

44:14 Valuing Music: A Cultural Perspective

49:43 The Impact of Streaming on Music Value

56:10 Algorithms and the Personalization of Music

01:01:20 The Role of Music in Society

01:07:23 Future Solutions for Musicians

01:19:38 Defining Success in the New Music Business

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week Ari sits down with Luis Navarro and Joel Niño Jr. of the duo Twin Tribes. This dark wave band out of Brownsville, TX has been gaining impressive momentum on the gothic scene—and they’re doing it entirely DIY. Twin Tribes releases their music through DistroKid and has over 30 million streams with nearly a million monthly listeners on Spotify alone. They have toured the world and managed their growing success completely independently.

In this episode, Twin Tribes tells Ari all about how they’ve built their DIY operation from the ground up. They share about how they’ve partnered with record labels to utilize their physical product offerings (CDs, cassette tapes, vinyls, etc) while still maintaining full independence as artists. Luis and Joel also break down the potent visuals behind the Twin Tribes brand and how they developed their aesthetic. This conversation is an inspiring example of how finding your niche and building a DIY community can help catapult your career.

https://www.instagram.com/twin_tribes/

Chapters

00:00 The Genesis of Twin Tribes

02:53 Building a DIY Community

06:03 The Role of Aesthetics in Music

08:51 Discovering the Gothic Scene

12:13 The Cassette Era and Initial Releases

15:10 Growing Through Live Performances

17:58 Transitioning to Full-Time Musicians

20:51 Strategic Partnerships and Touring

24:04 The Evolution of Their Sound and Success

28:21 Navigating DIY Music Partnerships

30:42 Building a Digital Strategy for Streaming Success

36:24 Creating Ambitious Music Videos

44:23 Crafting a Cohesive Aesthetic and Vision

50:36 Engaging with Fans and Community

53:04 Looking Ahead: Future Plans for Twin Tribes

Edited and mixed by Ari Davids

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take

Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.